Joy Reid Presses David Jolly on Why He Won't Debate Byron Donalds in Florida

David Jolly, the Democratic nominee for governor of Florida, told Joy Reid this week that he won't debate Republican Byron Donalds because "it's hard to debate a liar." He also conceded that most people probably disagree with his decision.

The exchange came on a live episode of The Joy Reid Show, less than three weeks before the November 3 election. Reid agreed with Jolly on almost everything else in the interview, from Donalds' Jim Crow remarks to data centers. On the debate question, she pushed back.

"Why not debate him? He is willing to debate you. Why are you not willing to do a debate?" Reid asked.

Why David Jolly Says He Won't Debate Byron Donalds

Jolly said the dispute started with how the debates were set up. "So I had accepted several debates. Byron wouldn't respond. And then he tried to body check me on a Friday afternoon by press release and say, here are the three debates. Here are the rules, take it or leave it," he said.

"I would argue that he has been incredibly dishonest and it's hard to debate a liar," Jolly continued, adding: "All of his ads are ruled false. I don't support a hurricane tax, a social security tax."

The two campaigns never settled on a shared event. Jolly accepted debates hosted by CBS Miami and the Tampa Tiger Bay Club, and Donalds accepted three others, with Spectrum News, News4Jax and Telemundo/NBC 6, ABC Action News reported. Jolly ruled out debates entirely on September 20. Donalds replied: "I said 3 debates. Jolly said 12 debates. Yesterday, Jolly said no debates. Who's the liar Dave?" Donalds himself declined to debate during the Republican primary, ABC Action News reported.

If no debate takes place, it will be the first Florida governor's race in more than 50 years without a televised debate, the Tampa Bay Times reported.

Jolly's claim that "all" of Donalds' ads have been ruled false goes further than the record. A WPTV fact check of the Donalds ad warning about a $1,000-a-year "hurricane tax" found that it misapplied a Florida State University study that looked at a different model from Jolly's windstorm-fund proposal. PolitiFact's Samantha Putterman told NBC 6 that "there is no tax on the books or proposed by Jolly."

Jolly also said Donalds "was arrested for bank fraud." In 2020, PolitiFact rated an earlier opponent's ad about Donalds' youthful legal cases Mostly False. It found that a 1997 marijuana charge was dismissed and that Donalds pleaded no contest in a 2000 felony theft case and served one year of probation. The record was later sealed and expunged, and PolitiFact said there was no evidence the state treated him as a convicted felon. Donalds did not appear on the show to respond. Reid said her producers invited him and got no answer: "We did reach out, we did not hear back."

Jolly Concedes the Money Gap and the Minority View

Reid said she was going to "push back just a little bit" and raised the fundraising gap, including money from data center interests. More than $5 million of that money has gone to Donalds' campaign, WUSF reported. "When you don't debate, are you not concerned that it looks like you fear debating him?" she asked.

"I think my position is the minority opinion position here. I think most people agree with you," Jolly said. He also acknowledged the money problem: "we're getting destroyed in fundraising. I mean, 150 to $15 million, we're getting destroyed and that might decide the race, right?"

His numbers are close to the filings. Donalds has raised $140 million, WLRN reported. As of late September, Jolly had raised about $16 million, Fox 13 reported.

Is Florida Really Down to 6 Percent Undecided?

Jolly argued that debates would change few minds. "There's only about 6% of the state that's currently undecided," he said. "I think 94% of the state has made up their minds already." He also said that Donalds has "probably spent $100 million and tonight he's tied."

The polls don't agree on that. A Change Research poll released Monday, from a Democratic-aligned firm, showed the race tied at 47 percent each, which leaves about 6 percent elsewhere. A Mason-Dixon poll taken from September 28 to October 1 had Donalds ahead 48 percent to 41 percent with 10 percent undecided, including 24 percent of independents. PolitiKool's polling average for the Florida governor's race puts Donalds at 48.1 percent and Jolly at 43.3 percent, a lead of 4.8 points.

Jolly said he would rather "be Ted Lasso," and that debates reward "who can land the greatest insult."

What Happens Next

Reid closed the subject by saying, "Well, we can agree to disagree on that." She then praised Jolly, a former Republican congressman, as "a more legitimately conservative person than he is."

Jolly left one opening. If he thought debates "would actually help our campaign win the race, perhaps I would reconsider my decision." For now, he said, it is Donalds who "needs the debate."